[Hurricanes and cruising-and you]

It's only July and there haven't been many tropical storms/hurricanes..yet. But when there *is* one-and if they interfere with cruises-and a cruise line screws up dealing with it, you'll know.

Personally, I would never cruise during hurricane season.I understand why people do so(cheaper) but they do NOT understand that there are risks involved with it-missing the boat, and missing ports among them.And people do not buy insurance.Without insurance, you are shit out of luck-and people STILL don't do it. That makes no sense whatsoever!

When a cruise line "screws up" and doesn't deal with it appropriately,people are almost gleeful.Not defending the cruise line,but there are plenty of fans of other cruise lines that are quick to line up to bash the offending cruise line.Same with the people who write for the main Cruise Critic website..to read some of what they write when things like this happen,there is a bias against certain cruise lines.

The time when Royal Caribbean "screwed up" because of Hurricane Irene is a good example. There were a LOT of people who flew in to San Juan Puerto Rico(where the cruise started). You NEVER do that-at least not if you're a *smart* cruiser. The only reason that you would get to the port the day of is if you were within driving distance-Ft. Lauderdale is a good example of this, as are San Diego and Long Beach.)

People  want to lay complete blame on the cruise line but truth of the matter is, is that cruisers do plenty of things that are *their* fault..not saying that the cruise lines aren't at fault, but when you read the posts on the Cruise Critic forums bashing cruise  lines who "screw up" and read the posts from Cruise Critic writers, their biases certainly shine through. You certainly see it on the HAL(Holland America Line) boards. Cruise Critic brass are biased-especially towards Holland America.They see HAL as especially untouchable..for whatever reason.

Gonna go off topic here but it bears discussing..

Royal Caribbean frequently comes in for a lot of shit and I think their super-sized ships bring out the hate in people.What a bizarre thing to hate over.No-one is forcing you to cruise on them-and you're entitled not to like them but some of the comments are based on..searches for a phrase and settles on "petty bullshit".

Holland America is-in order to keep up with the Joneses like Royal Caribbean- being forced to go to bigger ships..which will probably make Holland America lose some of its appeal for the writers at Cruise Critic.

Holland America is starting to realise who their actual passenger base is. And I KNOW they read the Cruise Critic boards(I mean, they know peoples' real names,so..)

[I am all for trying something new]

Some people are all up in arms about the Konigsdam. My feeling about this are as follows:

Nobody is forcing you to go on the Konigsdam. And inasmuch as people are entitled to their opinion, it is whinging, for lack of a better term.

Holland America is trying something new,(and it's about damn time!)... it's upsetting some cruisers. But these are the people who favour the older, more classic ships(the same ships that are being sold to other cruise lines, cruise lines who want to take on all of the issues which come with buying older ships from another cruise line.

Here are some of the complaints about Konigsdam from people on the Holland America boards on Cruise Critic(with my opinions in bold)

*Too big of a ship
It is, in fact much smaller than the Royal Caribbean ships.NEXT.

Too crowded
To see renderings of the ship, it looks like the *opposite* is true.

*Not enough bars
Some posters on the Cruise Critic HAL boards are obsessed,obsessed I tell you, with where their next drink is coming from.

*No glass elevators(a feature on all HAL ships).
Really?*that* is a deal breaker for you?

But for all of that, there are plenty of people that want to be one of the first to cruise on her. There was negativity before the Niew Amsterdam and Eurodam, and they are some of the most beloved ships in the Holland America fleet(and I've been on Eurodam so can speak from personal experience!)

Holland America is going for a newer, cleaner look(and more choice of restaraunts, including a Dutch-themed ship and a seafood restaraunt(which I SO would try if I was cruising on Konigsdam!)

Already, there is word of mouth about Konigsdam;I doubt that Holland America is worried about it not selling out.With everything it has going for it, it is going to be very popular.

[Cruise Critic is flatlining r/n *clear*!]

*Carnival Corp. is  building several new mega-ships for their Aida line(part of the Carnival umbrella along with several others)

Cue the usual comments about floating condos. *eyeroll*

Holland America is probably going to wind up having to have at least one other ship bigger than the Konigsdam, to keep up with the Joneses(read:inferior cruise lines) since they are selling several of their smaller, older ships(sloppy seconds) to lines like P&O.

*Ship's officers are no longer allowed to go to meet and greets because of people hassling them with petty issues.

Which  ties into something else that was mentioned:

There are some people that expect certain things and to be acknowledged by crew members every time they are onboard a HAL ship.There are certainly people who flaunt their relationships with the crew and have to mention it every chance that they get.

[Kinda boring..same old same old TBH]

*Quibbling about dress codes.

*Carnival(which owns HAL) is limiting the amount of soda people can bring on board and the people on the Cruise Critic HAL(Holland America) boards are worried it's coming to HAL.OTOH it's not the problem on HAL that it is on Carnival, so..

*No more 1-day cruises(so no one-day cruises  for the Konigsdam so people can check her out..it's likely they'll have her docked someplace and people in the travel/cruise buisness can do tours of her.

*Several posters were talking about  crew members that they didn't like in code.Fortunately it got shut down pretty quickly.

[Not even sure where to start]

Because there is a shit-ton this week-and there probably won't be another one for a bit the ways things are going.So let's get started, shall we?

*Cheerleaders do not try to spin positive posts but will seldom accept anything negative about their beloved cruise line.This is an issue on each cruise line's board.
(Yeah, but it's a lightning rod on the HAL boards)

They'll say "our cabins have always been fine"
(which discounts the experiences of, and is a slap in the face of anyone who has had issues)

There are a couple of posters that will beat you into a pulp and harass you 'till you give up.I thought that type of behavior was not allowed but some posters are golden.
(Yes, yes they are.)

The cheerleaders have gotten threads that disagree with them closed, which just goes to show how much sway certain posters really *do* have.

*Hal "experts" get on my last nerve. Yes, we know, talking about outside websites and the like is a huge no-no but you don't have to mention it multiple times in the same thread.They jump all over new posters especially-and then snipe at the people who say that that is the sort of thing that scares off new posters(well, it's true!)

WRT the outside website thing too: could they have explained why they did what they did better?Yes.Same with the wine policy.But there was plenty of warning, but not enough for some people, and then there were miscommunications about when it was going to start.Thing is,people knew about that and were kinda in denial about it.They feel like they should be able to bring as much booze as they want on a cruise-but the whole reason that that policy was implemented was because people were bringing cases and cases of wine.Whut?I mean, you're only going on a week long cruise and you need  *that* much wine? I think that's called alcoholism, actually. I don't even care if that comes off as shaming, either.

Yes, HAL's wine selection isn't great, but you have to bring like 2 or 3 cases of wine? SMH.Add to that the way that some cruisers brag about how many drinks they order a day.

*HAL is getting more relaxed about formal nights, according to some comments on the HAL boards...the crew wants guests to enjoy themselves..the cheerleaders are more concerned about this than HAL is(of course..)Someone made the comment about how a lot of the people on the HAL boards are old times who cling to old traditions.
(Ain't that the truth..they want to recreate Titanic on every cruise.That and the "tux and gowns only" mentality. How soon before steamer trunks make a comeback with some HAL cruisers?)

*The lady whose kids got hassled on the Panama cruise posted a picture of the people around the pool-one of the people was the one who hassled her kids so she blurred out the faces of everyone in the picture..except she did a shitty job.

Well, at least she did..unlike the person who posted  pictures of people that they thought were not dressed appropriately on formal night without the faces blurred out(and got ripped a new asshole for it.)

Plus, she mentioned the fact her kids got hassled by other posters..constantly.Like I said when that post was live..it's a cry for attention.

*The  latest thing is "would you cancel a cruise if  you didn't like the captain/cruise director?" Really?Seriously, is this freaking high school? I am dealing with that right now so it hits home..but y'all are grown-ass men and women.I don't get it.

[the drama is..dramatic as freaking ever]

*Dress code thread "why do we have to be stuck in mid-20th century definitions of formality?..people have latched on to that point to resist any change going forwards". In a word: Titanic.

*People think HAL's(Holland America's) food is "just fine".OK, but the way that some people  rave about the Dive In burgers or certain desserts... IMO the people with the least sense of what is "good" food are the ones who like crap like Canaletto. But I am heartened to see that there are plenty of people that don't think that Dive In is the second coming of hamburgers.

And the bread pudding..they move it around, it varies by ship..but part of the things is that on some of the ships they have it behind a counter and they serve you, and on other cruise ships they just have it out for anyone who wants it.

Thing of it is, is the non-self-serve version got people upset..but on the thread about it several people said that people who served themselves were getting HUGE portions, and they were slopping the bread pudding and the sauce all over the place. Another element to it is food handling.. they're *supposed* to have the bread pudding behind a counter for that very reason, but it seems to vary wildly from HAL ship to HAL ship. However, this is the sort of thing,when they are doing a inspection, that(I think) that can get serious points knocked off.

On a related note, apparently tortellini is what passes for a  vegetarian option on formal night on Holland America ships. Don't get me wrong, I love tortellini, but I get what the person who mentioned this was saying.It's  being chintzy on Holland America's part.That's the best you can do?seriously? Of course the cheerleaders think serving tortellini is fine.

*People stanning for HAL whenever anyone dares to *gasp* say something negative about their HAL cruise. Someone said it was as if they had insulted a child.

The cheerleaders won't accept/reject  anything negative.Even when people state what happened clearly they get shot down by the cheerleaders. The cheerleaders have a hard time believing that HAL's product hasn't degraded, and for that reason they are delusional(they can't be objective,IOW).

*Then there's this: a thread about a inferior cruise line's ship(a Princess ship) that had a worse redo than one of HAL's ships.

The thread is literally *nothing* but people smack talking at the inferior cruise lines, calling it "Island Bridge Troll"(it's the Island Princess) and comments like "ugly back end" and "fugly ship". People on the Cruise Critic Holland America boards do NOT need an excuse to bash other cruise lines and other ships.

[I take back what I said about a lack of drama at Cruise Critic]

*Complaining about NCL charging for room service-but there may be practical reasons for it-like some of their passengers are slobs and spill food all over the place.

*Looking into open cabins when you  is a no-no,apparently.

*A thread about what topics are off-topic continued to bug(though I think it either got buried or zapped.) Several people commented that it's the sort of thread that turns off people who are new to the HAL(Holland America) boards at Cruise Critic. Which is something I have been saying for freaking *ages*.

*On a related note this:

"People who love cruising tend to overstate and over-remember how good everything is onboard"

Is one one of the truest things I have ever read. I have seen how  people rave about how great the hamburgers at the Dive In are-a whole cult has grown up around them and quite frankly that has me shaking my head.

There's this:

"whoever goes on a cruise and raves about the food doesn't know good cuisine"

Amen to that. I like the food, but I would not raise a hamburger to sainthood. LOL

[It's gonna be weird not to write Cruise Critic posts for a while]

Or at least not as many of them-maybe  once every other week..unless there is some sort of major drama  going on on the boards,then maybe every other day(or just update the posts periodically, IDK.)

No more sailaways until October(which is where Cruise Critic HAL boards do the most dissing of other cruise lines..They'll probably find other ways of doing that, though, if I know that place at all. ;) )

There's a thread "What topics are off limits onboard?" One poster said that she is paranoid about people knowing who she is. She has where she lives on her profile..and she's posted pictures of her kids..you know, it would be easy enough for someone to take her pictures and put them in Google images and do a search on them.It's what they do on the TV show Catfish.

She says that her kids are "Off limits"-this is the same person who was on the Panama Canal cruise recently and said that her kids kept getting hassled by elderly passengers(IMO,the wording of her posts made it seem like a cry for help..the wording of how the kids were getting hassled-several times-was..no other word for it.. over the top.

Also, she is more than a little bit of a helicopter mom.

Then, on her review of the Panama Canal cruise she said that her son was bothered by(and refused to get off the ship because of) armed guards at several of the ports. Could she be putting that into her son's head?

[summer(nearly) doldrums]

Probably the last Cruise Critic post for a while.. it's gone a bit quiet there to be honest..

Though on a sailaway thread a week or so ago they were complaining about another(inferior) cruise line's ship being in the way so that they couldn't see what was being loaded on the ship for dry dock. Really? *everything* related to the cruise ships is *that* interesting? Then again, these are people that hold things like hamburgers(see:The Dive In  counter on HAL ships)  in high esteem.

Going through the HAL boards you can find plenty of posters  dissecting all manner of HAL minutiae.

[Not really a comment about Cruise Critic as such..]

But I'll throw it out there just  the same:

Holland America are selling off two of their older ships, ones that, recently have been having problems with engines, air conditioning, plumbing, etc. They're being sold off to P&O. If I had to deal with all the issues that come with taking..for lack of a better word, Holland America's sloppy seconds...I would be..I am so sorry.. P&O'd.

Hopefully P&O are more invested in the upkeep of older ships than Holland America seems to be. Holland America is really struggling to keep up with the Joneses-other cruise lines-in terms of ships with the latest amenities. They're doing that with the Konigsdam which starts sailing next year.It's bigger than any of their previous ships. The announcement that it was going to be  so big really ruffled the feathers of a lot of people at Cruise Critic. A lot of people said that they would not cruise on a ship that big. Hey, nobody's forcing you to go on it, you know.

The newer, cleaner look is a turn-off for a lot of the die-hards that post on Cruise Critic. They like the old-world, wood look that most of the Holland America ships have. The first time I saw pictures of  what the Konigsdam is going to look like, I loved it. I'm *really* glad that Holland America are upping their game and making Konigsdam a game changer.

One does wonder if they did a bit of asking around to see what people wanted from a new Holland America cruise ship, and a lot of people must have said "a cleaner, more modern look". And that is exactly what they're getting with the Konigsdam.

[Column A, Column B]

No sailaways this weekend so less of that stuff about "inferior" cruise lines' ships being in the way. Though Noordam was late last weekend..amazed that wasn't blamed on another cruise line. Good to see that the HAL(Holland America) cheerleaders know when to STFU.

 The people who make the nasty comments about other cruise lines' ships being in the way need to get the f*** over themselves, IMO.

*People raving about the Dive In restaraunt-I just do not get it-people talk about those burgers like they're seriously the best thing they've ver eaten. I'm a foodie, but I would never elevate a burger to that status.

*The people on the Panama Canal cruise are complaining-to the extent that someone is kind of on the outs with the other people on the cruise because they were complaining(I think it's the same person that was complaining about their kids getting hassled by other,older passengers several times. S/he has complained about several things, and I think it was getting on people's nerves..people on that thread weren't really responding to her.. TBH her claims that her kids were getting hassled is a cry for attention. But that's just me.

Other butt hurts? Being invited(or not)to Captains' cocktail parties. Apparently, things you say on Cruise Critic *are* noted..people think that they are anonymous on Cruise Critic but they're wrong. Holland America knows what peoples' screen names are,because the Captain or crew will say "aren't you(insert real name here)?"

*At one point they left two people at one of the ports and the Captain was gossiping about it at a cocktail party later that evening.That's conduct rather UNbecoming of the captain of a ship, no? To say nothing of which it's idle gossip.Kinda rude that he'd be  turning that into gossip for himself and passengers to laugh at.

There were a zillion different versions of why they missed the ship going around.That doesn't surprise me all that much.

*So..I have some possible cruising news of my own..I am trying to talk my parents into  a Panama Canal cruise next year. It may or may not happen, and I'd rather be vague about the timing for now.

The other interesting aspect of that cruise is that it's a 2-week cruise. A week longer than  I'm used to. There are a lot of sea days(days with no stops) which means I'd have to take a couple of books at the very least. There's always something going on onboard though-it's impossible to be bored!

[same old same old]

*The bitching about other-non Holland America ships "being in the way" on the Cruise Critic Hal boards and-worst of all,leaving before HAL ships. Oh the humanity.All I can say is:Get over yourselves. I could  do without all their unflattering names for other cruise lines' ships, too.

*Then, someone was upset because there was a Sail Away but no HAL ships.

*Someone doing a 3 week Panama Canal cruise is upset because a fellow passenger was rude to one of her kids.I doubt it happened. Not that I think it doesn't happen but the way she described it-someone said "Little children don't belong on cruise ships" or something to that effect-was so incredibly over the top. And maybe I'm a bit naive, but oh well.

Then, it happened again.And she's gotten several other comments and stink eye from other fellow passengers.That's what makes me think it might be her trying to get attention.Which she gets a lot of-along with "Oh, I'm so sorry that this is happening to you and your kids". *sigh* this is gonna be a long 3 weeks.

*Good lord..there was a "if only HAL would do away with formal nights" thread. Oh shit.This is a controversial statement(that's putting it mildly..)Secondly, the OP(original poster) talks about other cruise lines.Some of whom have all but done away with formal  nights. This works the pro-formal night people on the HAL boards into a frenzy because some of them are holding onto formal night and b) it's a personal attack on Holland America. This gets the OP called a shill for other cruise lines.He *did* have a few people agreeing with him so there is that at least.

Comparison threads(HAL vs.(insert name of inferior cruise line here) turn into a whole discussion of why Holland America is so much better than every other cruise line out there. *eyeroll*

(if anyone from Cruise Critic wants to comment on anything I've said,feel free;but know that I pre-screen comments before I post them. If I think they pass muster,I will respond to them. If not,I..won't.

*By the way, both of the HAL ship discussion blogs(which are also on Blogger) were made private.The plot thickens.

[Cruise Critic posters probably read this and think "do I sound like that?" Yeah, you do]

*Waves*

There was a murder-suicide on the Ryndam..and of course on the thread about it on Cruise Critic someone had to get a shot in at Jim Walker from the Cruise Law website who has the most accurate reporting on these sorts of things.

The comments on Jim Walker's website are very telling-obviously the people are HAL(Holland America) cheerleaders/Cruise Critic posters.

Take this comment for example:

"Princess is just another horrible Carnival owned cruise line". Erm..So is HAL. NEXT!

And this(regarding a similar incident on a Royal Caribbean ship):"Refreshing to see there was a suspected crime scene left intact.Perhaps RCCL(Royal Caribbean Cruise Line) can learn a lesson from HAL on this one"."Petty" doesn't even begin to describe it. JFC.

*Sail aways are almost over for a few months. You can tell it annoys the shit out of them when "another" ship(from a "inferior" cruise line- i.e. NOT Holland America) leaves before "their" HAL ships. *eyeroll*.

*posters on the HAL(Holland America) boards are fixated on certain things-food  for one one thing. I wonder what people are thinking that they think the room service club sandwich(which has shitty processed cold cuts instead of the real thing-way to cheap out Holland America-for a cruise line that talks about "Standards Of Excellence-that's pretty low standards right there if you ask me) is The!Best!Thing!They've!Ever!Eaten!In!Their!Life! Really? *shakes head*.

[Holland America wish theirs-their ships-were bigger but won't admit it]

*A Royal Caribbean bashing thread(what a big shocker there!) but there were a few people defending Royal Caribbean and saying that it's not for everyone but it is good for families(especially the largest ships which have a lot(ice skating,climbing walls, etc.) that kids like.

Eventually, I think Holland America will wind up having a mega ship built, just so they can keep up with other cruise lines and their ships-and they'll market it more to families.

That's not to say that Holland America isn't kid friendly-it is.(I always have said that if Holland America did not want kids on their ships then they wouldn't puts kids/teen clubs on their ships.

It always annoys me when I see people try to discourage people with kids from cruising on Holland America;unfriendly much?  The number of kids on any given Holland America cruise can vary wildly depending on the time of  year.

Sometimes though it's just out and out hostility to anyone with kids. And people wonder why Holland America  cruisers get stereotyped as being mostly old people(not true-there have always been a few kids on the Holland America cruises we've been on.)

I don't think that the posters on the Holland America boards at Cruise Critic accurately reflect actual Holland America cruisers. Not.Even.Close.Though some of the diehards would LOVE  to think that that is the case. These are some of the people that are right there suggesting that people with kids try another cruise line(I wish I could say I was exaggerating but I'm not.)

There are some  subjects(dress code for one) that are certain people's berserk button.Kids on HAL cruises are others. For a while there were a lot of grammar posts(never mind that it is a huge-ass no-no to correct peoples' grammar-people do it anyhow.)

[there's bad ideas and then there's worse ideas]

*LOLing  at the "ideas for HAL(Holland America) to make more money thread" on Cruise Critic. Some of the suggestions:

Have lodging on Half Moon Cay(nope.That place is bare bones.Plus, they'd have to rebuild every time it got damaged by a hurricane(which has happened)

Charge for reservations in the MDR(Main Dining Room)

*There was also a thread about summer cruises(during the months when there are hurricanes.) There were a few people that said they would but most thought it was a bad idea.

I know HAL *did*offer Caribbean cruises in the summertime but they stopped because they were having to reroute and the like.

There was a faux outrage(especially on the HAL boards,but on the rest of Cruise Critic too which is funny because it wasn't even a HAL ship) a few years ago when a Royal Caribbean cruise ship had to leave San Juan Puerto Rico early in order to avoid a hurricane, leaving a large number of passengers behind. You would have thought they committed a federal crime.

I get why people were upset, but it really WAS disproportionate to the actual situation. What you have to understand is that when you cruise during hurricane season, you're assuming a lot of risks.And being left, or having the number of ports changed or eliminated altogether is not out of the realm of possibility.

So what I am wondering is what would happen if Holland America were to handle a similar situation the same way as Royal Caribbean?Would people have the same faux outrage, or would they just handwave it away?(I don't doubt that some of Holland America's biggest cheerleaders(people who support the cruise line and defend any(and I do many ANY sort of criticism of their beloved cruise line *eyeroll* ) would probably do a lot of excusing. I seem to remember Royal Caribbean being singled out for especially harsh treatment for the way that they handled the San Juan situation on other areas of the Cruise Critic site.

[just..wtf]

I  really could do without some of the snippy comments that people on the Cruise Critic Holland America boards make. Bitching on the Sailaway threads because the Holland America ships are not leaving first?Really? Well, if there are a lot of ships in port(which it sounded like there were, today) then there is a certain order that the ships have to leave in. Not sure why people would take things like that so personally, but.. ok.

The other thing that mystifies me is the Dive In(right outside of the Lido on most of the ships.) Not anything special(hot dogs, hamburgers, etc.) but the way that a lot of people rave about their food you would think it's haute cuisine.And it's not. There are(thankfully) plenty of people saying "what's so special about this?"

I feel that way about the pillow chocolates the stewards leave every night. Quite frankly, they are not any great shakes( I think they're waxy crap. Holland America could do a whole lot better when it comes to chocolate, if we're being honest. Princess had REALLY good pillow chocolates-they were a lot better than Holland America's!)

Sometimes I wonder about the tastebuds of people that cruise on Holland America-I have heard more than one person say that they don't like the desserts. REALLY?!? I have yet to be disappointed by a dessert on Holland America-that is one area that cruise lines excel.

(It could be that these people  limit themselves to sugar-free desserts.Somehow I doubt, it, though.) The sugar-free stuff I stay away from;if I am gonna have dessert I want to enjoy it;plus the sugar free stuff is hard on my stomach.)

Trying to think of what dessert it would be possible for the chef on a cruise ship to screw up and I can't really think of anything!

[not quite drama central again..getting there though..]

*Bashing large groups who book cruises is the new thing.People don't like being "inconvenienced" by the groups when they take over the Crow's Nest or what have you.

Apparently PCC(Personal Cruise Consultants) have not been telling people when there is a large group on their cruise. Squeaky wheel gets the grease..that sort of information is easy to find-you can even find it on Cruise Critic. So I call a little bit of bullshit on that.  Try to go with the flow a little more.

Yes, you wanted a set dining time but the big group is messing with that.Adjust.The world will not end if you have Anytime Dining for *one* cruise.

*More reports of issues on various ships.The Rotterdam is looking very worn,according to several people who have cruised on her recently.And there are the usual problems with A/C, non-functioning toilets, etc.The same old same old.

Of course the HAL cheerleaders try to handwave it away.Fortunately there are always a few voices of reason who point out how  ridiculousthe comments about non-working toilets are are met with "bring a Ziploc bag"/"Use the public toilets".

I don't even know what to say about the first comment. I wish I could say I was joking about that but I'm not.

As for the second..that's completely impractical, *and* sometimes the public toilets  onboard the ship don't work either.  Add to that the average age of a HAL cruiser..and all the..health problems that come with that. I noticed that they sell Depends on HAL cruises.So HAL knows perfectly well that their customer base skews older.

[rules are rules]

The Halfacts anniversary thread got shut down(to be fair, it has been stated on more than one occasion that it's a verboten subject.)

Then someone started a thread calling out one of the moderators.It lasted overnight(started late night and wasn't zapped/deleted until mid-day the next day.)

Apparently the people that are bothered by this don't get that.It bothered them to the point that they started not one but two threads at the time explaining the policy was posted.

There was a lot of questioning about why things were done so behind the scenes;IMO if it happened behind the scenes,there was a good reason for it.

Someone tried to explain why Laura, et al might have done what they did and that lead to people openly sniping at each other.Which is pretty much SOP for any contentious thread on the Cruise Critic Holland America boards.

Here's the thing:They can't seem to grasp that Cruise Critic is part of a corporate entity(Trip Advisor) and that they can't allow info from outside websites.The fact that it's part of a corporate entity isn't any kind of secret, either.They have been allowing links, etc to outside websites for a long time and looking the other way for a while.

Halfacts, whilst it is a great resource(cruisers-a lot of them posters on the Cruise Critic Holland America boards-contribute information,pictures  and the like, of Holland America ships. )The problem is it's not an approved site,by Trip Advisor's  standards. Seems like Trip Advisor decided to start laying down some rules, and insisted that those rules were to be followed.

[starting to get good again]

*Lovedamships is no longer public.Not that it mattered all that much anyhow-the updates were sporadic as of late.The LoveDamShips Review site hasn't been updates in almost 3 years and I don't think it's coming back.

Not sure if people have truces or if they  just realised they were just as bad.

Tho I talked to D., the guy who runs LoveDamShipsReview and he's an alright sort.I think the people at LoveDamShips were too hard on him.

*So promoting outside websites is a no-no on the Holland America boards at Cruise Critic, and at least one person feels "singled out" because she had spoken out about censoring of certain websites-she had one of the banned websites in her signature but was the only one that got dinged(a warning from the moderators) for it.

This person started a thread knowing full well that it would get deleted(which it did) and then started another one(which also got deleted..after that there weren't any more..big shocker there.)

There was definitely a huge shake-up going on behind the scenes at the HAL boards and they wanted to keep it behind the scenes because they knew that noses would get out of joint.

*There was a contentious dress code thread.."Polo" shirts-they have to be the Polo  brand specifically-because some polo shirts do not have collars-for which they were quickly corrected. Polo shirts encompass many different brands. One of my favourite polo shirts is from The Gap.

Rev. Neal(who has made some..how shall we say..controversial..comments  on dress code threads was actually the voice of reason.Go figure.

[this is all over the place and rambly]

Posters on the Cruise Critic Holland America boards get stuck on the oddest things.Like:

*They were almost *gleeful* that the HALCats(the house band-well, one of them) on HAL ships are being phased out. the HALCats get called a lot of things-including "screechy"(more than once.) I don't have a problem with them myself but a lot of people on the HAL boards do.

*Modernising ships(interactive TV menus in the cabins, and larger ships among other things)

First as to the "modernisation": Holland America has always been about "Old world charm"  and whilst that's all fine and good...the average age of the HAL cruiser  can be quite old, although depending on  what time of the year it is you may or may not see lots of families on there

They have kids' clubs on all their ships-if you ask me, if they didn't want kids on their  ships they wouldn't have a kids' hangout on their ships. Some people on the Cruise Critic HAL boards go out og their way to try and discourage families from going on HAL cruises.

Where was I? Oh, so the age of HAL cruisers and the attraction of Old world charm. Well, eventually  some of those people are going to die off. The younger people who are starting to discover Holland America are going to want a more modern experience perhaps(especially given that  some of the Holland America ships are starting to age quite badly and Holland America's track record with maintenance on their ships) If that continues to be the case, they will start cruising on other cruise lines.

And the larger ships..well, they're starting to get into that with their new ship.It's certainly  nothing like the Oasis or Quantum of the Seas(Royal Caribbean's  megaships), but people think it's too big just the same.And people hate how modern  the rooms are. I saw a rendering of them and thought they were quite nice. 

As their current ships(the newest, biggest ships- the Eurodam and the Nieuw Amsterdam)start to age Holland America is going have to start thinking about  where they want to go next..and in fact they have the Konigsdam starting next year, and apparently another ship in a few years besides.

IMO Holland America would do well to think about making that ship more family friendly,add a few more amenities. I can see people on the Holland America boards at Cruise Critic having a problem with that since they are the opposite of early adopters.

People get..searches for a word and settles on "Too into" Od World Charm. There's a lot  who think that cruising is still like something out of Titanic.It isn't.